The Matrix as Messiah Movie Book IV - Warner Bros. Message Center

Author	Topic: The Matrix as Messiah Movie Book IV
cecilc Member	posted 05-03-99 03:46 PM When I start seeing postings in triplicate (not to mention quads!), it's time to open up a new section. Welcome to Book IV of The Matrix as Messiah Movie,...... Unbelievable! Cecil ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-03-99 03:53 PM Yeah, it was almost 200K. Lots of unanswered questions in all three threads. [remember to look back, gang] You planted in rich soil, Cecil. [or is it that my posts are fertilizer?] ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
cecilc Member	posted 05-03-99 03:54 PM Here are the previous thread links: For the original thread: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000052.html For Part II: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000750.html For Part III: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000806.html And for Book IV: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000930.html Don't let those trains of thought get derailed! Cecil ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-03-99 03:58 PM Um, Cecil? Part III: http://wbboards.warnerbros.com/ultimate/files/Forum68/HTML/000855.html ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
cecilc Member	posted 05-03-99 04:15 PM Hey, gang,.... My mistake! Sorry! Mike's got the correct http address for Part 3.....again, my apologies! Fertilizer, Mike????????? Try the sun, my friend!!! Cecil ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
OnFyre4God Member	posted 05-03-99 04:52 PM Hello Friends! Once again, I must apologize for the infrequent posts. Lately I have noticed that this movie and all my thoughts about it have really been taking away from my time of devotion to the Lord. That is priority numero uno and I have concluded that this forum belongs way way down the list on my list of "productive ways to spend my time." Yet, I will drop in whenever I have absolutely nothing else to do. I must also apologize for the theological debate I started on this thread. As a final comment I would just like to clarify what I feel a few people have misunderstood about the way I interpret things. I am not attempting to use this movie to interpret the bible. It is very much the other way around. My goal is illustrate the truth using events from this movie. This movie, like anything created by men, is extemely fallible and many of it's themes are left undeveloped, like Cypher said: Neo: Is that... Cypher: The Matrix? Yeah. Neo: Do you always look at it encoded? Cypher: Well you have to. The image translators work for the construct program. But there's way too much information to decode the Matrix. This movie must be looked at "in code" if we are ever going to "decode" it. Therefore there is a lot of room to interpret this movie from New Age, or any number of perspectives, regardless of the makers intent. My doctrine is not dictated by this movie! It is only illustrated in very limited ways through it! If anyone has questions about my theological perspective, feel free to e-mail me and I will be happy to discuss things with you. From this point forward I will refrain from posting anything irrelevent to the original topic in this forum. cecilc: I have the utmost respect for you And now. . . On With The Show! I really don't have much to contribute today aside from this insight: ) Try reading the account of the defeat by, then victory over the city of Ai in Joshua. Some interesting parallels can be drawn to the Resistance vs A.I. conflict in the movie. god of dreams: u r kewl! ------------------ Repent! The Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand! Only One God
cecilc Member	posted 05-03-99 05:13 PM OnFyre,... The respect is mirrored! ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-03-99 06:17 PM A little more fuel for the Second Coming parallel: Morpheus says. “After HE died the Oracle prophesied HIS return” [my emphasis] Morpheus thinks Neo is the return of that original man. We think Neo is a Messiah figure -- an ACTION figure. Logic dictates we make the leap -- that we ACT on this information -- right? Neo, according to Morpheus, “had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he [Neo] who freed the first of us, taught us the truth,” in a prior life. Thoughts? ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
tracer Member	posted 05-03-99 07:05 PM This got posted in Part III just after Cecil split the thread, so I'll repeat it here just in case it was overlooked. ------- 12321: Thanks! Now I know the source of my deja vu. cecilc: Much as I like to believe in "happy" endings, I have to agree with you on both counts. The AI sure didn't seem too tolerant of us ("you are a cancer..."), and human history is testimony to our nature. The realist in me aknowledges that the AI would probably refuse any such offer and humanity would never honor it anyway. But the thought sure is intriguing! And yes, if the Christ parallels are continued true to form, only one group will remain standing (and we know who that is!) Any other thoughts on the science vs spiritual metaphor? ------------------ "It's the question that drives us..."
Formula Member	posted 05-03-99 08:32 PM About the question earlier as to why I came here; after I saw the movie, I wanted to see what other people thought about it. I had noticed that something in the movie sparked a deeper kind of thinking in me. I wanted to see if that was something that happened in just me, or if more people felt the way I did. I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that others shared my thoughts. Although I did have some ideas as to what the film meant to me, and what it could mean if I let it, I never realized the possibilities until I began to read what was being said here. Thanks for your interest and kind welcome, all. I am limited on time, so I'll be off now.
12321 Member	posted 05-03-99 08:46 PM Formula: Everyone who posts, everyone who takes a chance and hangs a piece of themselves out on the line with an honest thought/observation/question, is a hero. Something amazing is happening here. An idea is approaching critical mass. Miracles and wonders... Thanks to you and all. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
shadrach Member	posted 05-03-99 11:02 PM Although we have been overtly emphasizing a Judeo-Christian interpretation, at least for me this also includes all the heavy philosophical weight that said interpretation carries intrinsically. In other words, just because we haven't been mentioning Buddhism or Zen or various philisophical epistemologies, that doesn't mean they aren't necessarily implied by the Christian references. It just depends on how much credit you give to the average Christian, which from the sounds of it is (understandably) not a whole lot. There are those of us out here however that are rather promiscuous Christians, in the sense that we frequent other perspectives. Which is, of course, the cause of this forum. :-) > > > another subtext: Nietzschean. i have heard that a lot of people dont like the way i fly off at the end of the flick. this is actually an allusion to Nietzsche (think superman=ubermensch) < < < Of course, Nietzsche's "superman" is like Descarte's "workman;" the concept of course being in the Fourth Meditation that if there exists an idea of the workman as a target for our being via evolution or transformation, then that idea (since it is real and could not have arisen from something lesser than itself, as a "stone would have to appear from a larger or greater stone") is necessarily the real, perfect being which supercedes our imperfection and necessitates "God" as the source of said idea. I love the part where right after Neo takes the money for selling the optical disk he puts it into a hollowed-out copy of Nietzche's "Sim..". The first time I saw The Matrix and I noticed that happen, that was when I started to realize that this wasn't going to be just your everyday movie. :-) god of dreams: Indeed, if the only spiritual vocabulary you know is the Judeo-Christian Bible etc., that's okay. The main thing is your daily experience of it. That's what a lot of people miss, is that they hear all the buzz words and immediately think that 'oh, these are just Christians blabbering,' and dismiss it and think that these people are closed minded. Likewise many Christians don't bother to try to see things from any other perspective, because they've found a way that works for them. But it's just like with learning foreign languages, often you find that there are grammatical structures that do not exist in your native tongue which better describe certain things, so that even when you go back to speaking your first language, you have an added understanding of communicating. ------------------ = = = Jonathan S. Gilbert http://www.formatory.com/ = = = my cup is empty
guigirl Member	posted 05-03-99 11:14 PM there is no cup ------------------ provoke, always provoke \| http://parasites.org
Sampson Member	posted 05-04-99 06:13 AM OnFyr glad that ur back Just cause we don't agree doesn't mean we can't get along I was just thinking when I read that last post... Does that mean we should look at this world in code? I kinda think so What kind of decoder are u using and who did u let program it? Just something to think about I have a cup... Hmmm maybe I had one.... where did that go! accept the inevitable or suffer the pain of disapearing cups... Shadrach I've always wanted to learn more languages for that exact reason Sammy
nospoon3 Member	posted 05-04-99 08:19 AM Shadrach: I am but a student in this place That was great more please!! Another voice...the disc was Nietzsche....wow way to watch the film!! ------------------ There is no spoon Welcome to the Desert of the Real
kyote Member	posted 05-04-99 08:26 AM Perhaps the code that we all follow, although general, may be our own, our own Beleif Systems---which could be called BS. You know, all those experiences you've had in your life that stick with you even though you're not thinking about them...Even the ones that didn't necessarily happen to you- in a conscious state of mind..Or the things that your peers or families try to pund into your brain because it's "the normal thing to do', well I think we would all probably agree, there is no normal anymore........ - - -13- - -
Solucius Member	posted 05-04-99 11:19 AM Dear cecilc I have just posted a message in the "take this as you will" thread and realised that it probably should be included in this thread as well in regards to relating content. In it I talk about the highjacking of both Jesus and Jehovah by other merchandisers out there and some reference to the film as well of course. If anyone wants to run with it on this thread as well, I'm happy to play. Hope you find it relevant, and can I say cecilc, What a great thread you've got happening here! Regards Solucius
nospoon3 Member	posted 05-05-99 09:17 AM A pic on this site may help you folks wondering about the golden stuff in Neo's chest as he is pulled into the NEB I still think its just leftover pod goo.....what I don't get it why its golden. http://www.eonmagazine.com/archive/9904/FEATURES/big_picture/matrix/features_frameset.htm Happy hunting ------------------ There is no spoon Welcome to the Desert of the Real
cecilc Member	posted 05-05-99 12:55 PM Wow!...I’ve got a lot to answer here (and answer FOR, I guess!). Solucius,... Thanks for your comments. And, yes, I did see your posting in that “other thread” :-) You mention the hijacking of Jesus,....I quite agree. I think His message and redemptive act have been so distorted, misued, misconstrued, misinterpreted, and manhandled (heavy emphasis on the MAN part!) down through the years that people have become mistrustfull and afraid of Him. Just look at the reponse of people here in this forum at the mention of His name! But I know,.....I know,.....I was that way, too, once! But all that’s for another topic,.....e-mail me,.....we’ll talk. It’ll be fun! Mike,... So, you’re saying that Neo is the “reincarnated” version of that first guy who could “...manipulate the Matrix any way he saw fit...” Not just resurrected Saviors (Neo/Christ), but reincarnated ones (Neo/Christ). But despite your postings elsewhere :-) I’m almost sure that we’ve brought this up before in here (I’m just pullin’ your chain - believe me, there was nothing taken “wrongly” or out of context!). I remember writing that I didn’t think Neo was any more a reincarnation than I thought Christ was. And that I didn’t think that it would be a reincarnated Christ that returns for His 2nd Visit, but the good, ol’ fashion, original Jesus. That’s just my own personal take on the reincarnation thing,....but, like you pointed out, Mike, the Book doesn’t rule it out! Hey,...anything’s possible! And maybe that’s why the Book constantly warns us about the “false” prophets, Messiahs, and Christs - maybe because He WILL return as a reincarnation and we’ll really have to be on our toes to discern the REAL one! shadrach,... Enjoyed your post. Especially the “close minded” and “other perspectives” ideas. I think that’s very true. From a personal viewpoint, I’ve lived in the middle east, the far east, around Europe, and North Africa - and it’s not that I don’t bother to see any other perspective, I’ve SEEN some other perspectives. And I can tell you that the day-to-day PRACTICAL application of these “perspectives” do not promote a RELATIONSHIP with God as much as they promote a rote OBSERVANCE of God. Not faith as much as duty. Now that’s a huge difference! (I hope I can avoid the “promiscuous” label, though!) Hope to see more posts from you. Sampson,... Do I have to tell you MY decoder?! :-) You might want to check with Mike on the Torah Codes! Formula,... I really hope that everything you’ve read in this thread (and any others, for that matter!) is a help to you! I also hope that what you have to say to us is as big a help to us! Keep it comin’! tracer,... I haven’t forgotten. I’m just pondering. Cecil out ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
NyQ'ill Member	posted 05-05-99 02:51 PM I read your messages in the New York Times Film Forums message board and I saw that they all gave you a pretty hard time in there! ------------------ "WHOA....." "The Matrix has you."
12321 Member	posted 05-05-99 02:57 PM Cecil: No, I’m saying that Morpheus said that Neo is the “reincarnated” version of that first guy who could... He DOES seem to say that, right? [important that you respond to this one] And about watchin’ out for false claimants... Even if The One were alive and here with us, [an idea I subscribe to btw] he’d know enough not to flap his arms and say, “Look! Here I am!” ‘cause that’s not how it’s supposed to play out. When the Father gives the sign, he’ll take to the sky. [remember, the Kid doesn’t know when -- not the hour or the day] If Christ had to assume human form once again, it might be called “reincarnation,” but how would that not be the “original” Jesus? “The good, ol’ fashion, original Jesus” had to do it the hard way, just like us, so why not repeat the process? This is a matter of semantics not disagreement, right? ----- ----- ----- And I hereby grant you and all others permission to disagree with me without polite preamble. An example: Mike, you unmitigated bone-head! How can you possibly believe such drivel? See? I took no offense. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
kyote Member	posted 05-05-99 03:30 PM Only the whole is the Divine Manifestation without exclusion.--- Da Avabhasa --------------------------------------------- Jesus Christ Muntazar Quetzalcoatl The Sioux Messiah: A man in a red cloak coming from the East. Djojobojo Pahana Amida Maitreya The White Burkhan Kalki or Javada Saoshyant An olive-skinned man with long beard and white hair who comes from the East. As time goes by, human after human will contribute to the growth of the Uniter. The Uniter is in opposition to the old thought and its ability to limit love. But the old thought was necessary for the new to be born [or, the necessary manure for the flowering]. Everything is a oneness. All the new is not really new. All this has been spoken before by different masters of different times, but it is only now in this new time that it will be understood that it will be lived. Together all of you who are listening to this are the body of the Uniter, the body and the limbs. Together you are the new thought of the the time.
cecilc Member	posted 05-05-99 04:21 PM Mike,... Yes, you're right. I think Morpheus does believe that Neo is the reincarnated version - and, without saying, "You are the reincarnation.", he at least intimates it. Semantics,...yea! :-) And you're right about keeping a low profile if He's here now (an idea I'm not so sure of, btw). I think His first announcement to the world of His presence necessarily needs to be a very supernatural one! An announcement that leaves NO doubt! Cecil out ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
cecilc Member	posted 05-05-99 04:29 PM NyQ'ill,.... Please tell me what this, your last post, refers to, 'cause I've missed it: --------------------------------------------- I read your messages in the New York Times Film Forums message board and I saw that they all gave you a pretty hard time in there! --------------------------------------------- Cecil ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-05-99 05:27 PM Cecil writes: >And you're right about keeping a low profile if He's here now >(an idea I'm not so sure of, btw). Understandable. It’s not something we’re taught to expect. No need to agree, spiritually, but in the context of the movie, it seems to be a given. Agreed? >I think His first announcement to the world of His presence >necessarily needs to be a very supernatural one! >An announcement that leaves NO doubt! Like flying up into the sky? [I know something else comes next, but I’m trying to keep this kosher, you know, with the Book AND the movie] ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
cecilc Member	posted 05-05-99 05:35 PM Mike,... Oh, yea! In the movie, the man is IN THE HOUSE! And he's flyin' high! Tell it, brother, tell it!!!!!! ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-05-99 06:27 PM Neo, you seem to be leading two lives... Think of that in terms of the dual nature of Christ. ----- ----- ----- Let's say that the reason for physical rebirth had something to do with “bearing the sins of mankind.” I’ve tried, for over a decade, to reckon this in terms of the Gethsemane scene... The guy was sweating blood. There’s a name for that condition [can’t remember] and it actually happens under EXTREME duress. I’ve read that torture -- prolonged, brutal, agonizing torture can lead one to physically sweat blood. Hard to imagine. I always thought Christ’s sweating blood was a metaphor. Now I believe it true. But the question begs asking: What provoked this response? He knew something terrible about his future. He had doubts and asked if he really had to do it. And the voice said something like, “Yeah, Kid, you really gotta do it.” The traditional explanation focuses on the beating, whipping, and crucifixion -- horrible without question, but pretty much an everyday event during that time. I think, instead, that Christ had his eyes focused on the next 2,000 years. I believe it was the weight of THAT cross -- the sins of mankind -- that drew blood through his unbroken flesh. And I’ve come to believe that at the end he wouldn’t have any notion as to his true identity. He’d have to fight his way all the way back, until, at last, the spirit could return and make him whole once again. The movie is so true to this vision that I believe it an Inspired creation. We don’t pray to the man. We pray to the Spirit. This perspective may be unorthodox, but I don’t believe it conflicts with our deepest beliefs. My words are crude and don’t begin to tell the whole story, but if they hint at the truth... ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
12321 Member	posted 05-05-99 06:31 PM Gotta run to see it again. Just thought of something... ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
12321 Member	posted 05-05-99 10:49 PM Mr. Anderson, it seems that you've been living two lives. [just wanted to get that quote straight] I grabbed the Bible to make sure I had Gethsemane spelled right. Went to Mark for a couple of reasons and -- 14:32 [where the story begins] caught my eye... Looked at the clock, grabbed the paper, posted that note and out the door. Yep. The time of Neo’s phone call is 14:32:21. The call at the beginning of the movie is at 13:24:18. But in those days, following that distress, [then quoting Isaiah] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it’s light -- Mark 13:24 Scorch the sky... deny solar power... darken the sun... Mark’s Gethsemane account always gets me thinking... especially when the X-Man gets arrested. And the Neb’s plaque contains another reference to this chapter. [Mark III No. 11] Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” -- Mark 3:11 Very curious. Lots more, but time to sleep. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
cecilc Member	posted 05-06-99 04:28 AM Hey, Mike,... Here you go: The notion that someone could actually sweat blood seems contrived. However, there is a rare but recognized condition called hematohydrosis, in which capillary blood vessels that feed the sweat glands rupture causing them to express blood. This usually occurs under conditions of extreme physical or emotional stress. Mike, you are onto something very profound here. I can't wait!!! Cecil ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-06-99 08:07 AM Thanks, Cecil, but I don’t wanna do a monologue. Plus, I’m not sure that I’ll have time. Wingin’ my way to San Diego later today. I’ll try, but may not have much time to post til next week. Ma and Pa-in-law ARE web surfers though, so at least I’ll have a connection. How do the rest of you feel about what I’ve posted recently. Does the story hold water? You know, does it even make any sense? ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
cecilc Member	posted 05-06-99 08:39 AM Mike,... Yes, what you've said and posted to date makes perfect sense (well,...to me anyway! And there are those who think I'm a little off!). Regarding the Gethsemane scene: The sweating blood reference I just always took to be fact (there's that fundamentalist nature coming thru!). And the stress causing it: I think more emotional than physical. I think Gethsemane was a huge moment for Christ (and I've said this before in this thread). This is where, I believe, that God the Father let His Son in on just what was going to be played out in the next day or two - in detail. And I think the emotional weight and expectation of His fate (yes, fate!) caused that physical response. ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-06-99 12:42 PM Cecil, I agree with you. The hematohydrosis [thanks for that term btw] is caused by emotional [spiritual?] stress. I’ll try to address that issue... When you say, “This [Gethsemane] is where, I believe, that God the Father let His Son in on just what was going to be played out in the next day or two - in detail.” do you mean in terms of what I posted yesterday: “The traditional explanation... the beating, whipping, and crucifixion” or are you including the trip to Hell and the part about “bearing the sins of mankind” as well? BIG difference, right? [just trying to clarify] And about that trip to Hell... Trinity: Because you have been down there, Neo. You know that road. You know exactly where it ends. And I know that's not where you want to be... No? Trinity: No? Let me tell you what I believe. I believe... you are going to need my help. And since I am the ranking officer on this ship, if you don't like it, I believe you can go to hell. Because you aren't going anywhere else. How ‘bout, “Because you aren’t going anywhere else WITHOUT MY HELP.” MY, btw, refers to Trinity as the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit, Neo winds up DOWN THERE... AGAIN! This has got to be clear for the rest to make sense. Do you see these scenes connecting with each other AND with the story in the Book? ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
kyote Member	posted 05-06-99 12:57 PM THE BIBLE'S WORDS::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: In 1 Samuel 15:3 we find the Hebrew prophet Samuel relaying God's order to exterminate the Amalekites, because their ancestors had opposed the Israelites centuries before: "Now go and smite Amalek, And utterly destroy all that they have; Do not spare them, But kill both man and woman, Infant and suckling, Ox and sheep, Camel and ass."
cecilc Member	posted 05-06-99 12:59 PM I'm with you so far, Mike. Kyote,... You have a point? ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
12321 Member	posted 05-06-99 01:08 PM Cecil, he’s done this elsewhere. He seems to be bent on finding the most hateful passages and passing them off as what the Bible REALLY means. Try the Great Commandment, kyote. Love. Love God. Love your bother [and sister] and Love yourself. 3 in 1 oil for the soul. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
kyote Member	posted 05-06-99 01:19 PM I'm just trying to present a wider spectrum of what you all are paralleling your insights with, I mean if you choose one passage or teaching mustn't you accept them all, or is it that you just pick and choose the things that sound the most beautiful....the most bright....the most peaceful....although this is very stimulating to the mind, there are very dark secrets out there--within that book ---that no one ever remembers.....Was I ever a slave? Am I now? Will I be in 10 years? -----------------------Don't get me wrong, I am very peaceful --And I'm no darker than than a Redwood in the Highlands(still living)--I'm just a little bitter with the whole Bible thing.....Didn't Hitler have the original version in his possession when he was ruling??????? Now The King James Version roams the planet like some sort of virus... There are good points in the Bible...perhaps I'm being redundant, but there are good -fascinating morals that are in the Bible...I just like to Stir It Up, God being so Peaceful and all, apparantly had . from the teachings of this book had us slay each other for peace, enslave each other for peace and killed his son(himself) for our peace..........Peaceful Guy.
12321 Member	posted 05-06-99 01:31 PM Okay, how do your insights parallel the movie? ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
kyote Member	posted 05-06-99 01:52 PM That' s not what I meant, but I do apologize for being a bit grumpy...There are so many thoughts and parallels I sometimes allow it to get to me emotionally and post something without even caring if it will detour others thoughts into some new direction that they don't necessarily want to go in. I'm dis-obeying one the main Discordian principles by unconsciously trying to alter someone else's perception. For this I apologize, my posts will be more observant in the future............... .......................... ................ ......... ...... ...... .... ............ .................There is no poetry in psychology.
12321 Member	posted 05-06-99 02:14 PM Apology accepted. Thanks. It takes an honest soul to admit error. [and I should know... I’ve had to admit enough of ‘em] “Discordian principles”? Is this out of the Illuminati books? Just curious. I’ve read ‘em too. Here’s the [unedited] post I was about to submit before your 1:52 response popped up ahead of mine: kyote: You say that you’re peaceful but bitter. Bitter at what? Oh, I see. Hitler had a Bible. Hitler was bad. Therefore, the Bible is bad. How ‘bout: Charles Manson listened to The Beatles’ [Helter Skelter]. Charles Manson was bad. Therefore, The Beatles are bad. “Now The King James Version roams the planet like some sort of virus...” Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation... There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure. Substitute the Bible for humans in his speech. Are you our cure, kyote? Jesus came to restore order, to bring new ways to solve old problems. To turn the other cheek rather than take an eye for an eye. Have you considered that? ----- ----- ----- See? Sorry. I responded in an unfriendly tone. Very poor behavior on my part. Talking the talk but not walking the walk. But I’ll keep trying. ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
12321 Member	posted 05-06-99 02:20 PM Cecil, no more time to develop those other ideas now. Gotta catch a plane. See ya! ------------------ mike skocko http://www.ix625.com
kyote Member	posted 05-06-99 02:29 PM Sorry once again, it seems my little 'interuption' consumed the amount of time available for the discussion between Cecil and 12321, as for the Discordianism---Indeed. And the whole Hitler thing came from some books on Discordianism that I have read--basically stating that Hitler had a strong hold on the original version--the Transcripts of the Bible--and hired for a great deal of money-50 scholars to re-write certain passages and stories...That's where I was gonna go with that strain, but unfortunately-I noticed I was being a freakin Troll. So- may the Sleeper be Awakened.
cecilc Member	posted 05-06-99 03:13 PM Kyote,... I had a long answer to those first and second posts of yours concerning....well,...a bunch of stuff; but I've trashed it in light of your last two posts! Very nicely done! I've a new respect for you, Kyote. I agree with Mike,...it takes a big man to admit error. Cecil ------------------ Reach me at: http://thematrix.acmecity.com/mission/81 "The Matrix as Messiah Movie" cecilc@mindspring.com
kyote Member	posted 05-06-99 03:18 PM Thank You...Here's a little quote of Terrence McKenna's:::::There is some kind of disincarnate intelligence. It's in the water, it's in the ground, it's in the vegetation, it's in the atmosphere we breath, and our unhappiness, our discomfort, arises from the fact that we have fallen into history and history is a state of benighted ignorance concerning the real facts of how the world works.
NyQ'ill Member	posted 05-06-99 03:40 PM Hello Cecil. Did you not post your MATRIX AS MESSIAH MOVIE:THE ORIGINAL THEORUM on the New York Times online MEssage BOard Arts/current film forum? I remember it well. Because I read everything i can find related to keanu reeves and his films. I originally found your theory in there before it turned up over HERE. dont you remember? The people over at the New York Times gave you a very hard time over your theory and they did not agree with it at all. They said that the ONLY reason that the MATRIX opened on EASTER weekend was because STAR WARS was opening in MAY and they did not want a conflict with the STAR WARS box office. dont you remember those arguments at new york times? ------------------ "WHOA....." "The Matrix has you."
cecilc Member	posted 05-06-99 04:54 PM NyQ'ill,... Thank you so much for replying. I'll be totally honest (as if I've been lying through my teeth all the rest of the time!), I posted my conclusions about this film EVERY PLACE I could find back on April 2nd and 3rd when I first saw the film. The plain truth is - I don't remember! :-) I wish I could. If I saw the site again, it might jog my memory. Do you have the site address? If you do, or can even give me directions to it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks